Dreadaxe Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 (edited) La comparaison reste la meilleur solution mais on trouve quand même des choses en anglais pour aider à évaluer le nombre de points de créations fanmade. Par StormOfBlackFeathers l'auteur du blog Warpstone Addict revlid propose ça pour l'instant Citation Citation Do you have any guidelines, life this, for the actual creation of a Warband? It's in the works! On the most basic level, it's a question of finding the closest equivalent in an existing warband, and adjusting the points cost and runemarks appropriately – but there are definitely tips for what those points costs should look. In general, you're looking at a few factors: Movement – your Move characteristic (and the Fly runemark). In general, +1M is priced at about +15pts. The cost of extra Move reduces as your total Move rises – at M5-M7 it's worth about +10pts, and at M8+ it's worth about +5pts. Toughness – your Toughness characteristic. In general, +1T is priced at about +25pts. Wounds – your Wounds characteristic. In general, +2W is priced at about +5pts. Range – your Range characteristic. More specifically, the number of move actions it will take for an enemy fighter to reach you while you're attacking; 0 for a 1" sword, 1 for a 2" spear, 2 for an 8" javelin, 3 for a 12" bow, etc. This is about +10 per move action. Anything over 8" should come with a minimum range of 3-6", but that doesn't reduce the cost. Damage – there's no point looking at Attacks, Strength, Damage, and Critical Damage separately – look at them as a composite. Work out the average damage from each attack action – within that, +0.5D is about +10pts. Runemarks – fighters with access to unique, powerful abilities (particularly support abilities) may merit a points bump compared to similar fighters who don't. Normally it's about +10pts, all else being equal. So take a look at a Skeleton with a Spear and a Skeleton with a Sword. They both have the same stats and they both cost the same – but the Skeleton with a Spear has R2, which means it'll take a move action to reach it while it's attacking. That's +10pts to the spear. However, the spear's average damage is 2.00D against T3 and 1.66D against T4+, while the sword has an average damage of 2.50D against T3 and 2.00D against T4+. That's about +0.5D, on average – so the swordsman is +10pts, and the cost becomes equal again. That's a good guide for eyeballing it – start with the closest equivalent fighter (or two or three equivalents, ideally) apply those modifiers, and see if that looks about right. La vision de BAGBRO2 Citation This is very much a work in progress, as I am having some trouble pinning down the exact values of some things, but it should give you a good framework to use to determine a point value for most fighters. You will have to Playtest, and Playtest to dial in on a fair points value for each fighter you create. I used all of the Chaos Warbands and the Age of Sigmar factions that were available at release to start to calculate these values (I didn't have the M&M book to look at), but it is NOT 100% ACCURATE. And some things are simply the best guess. The basic premise was that you start with a "bare-bones" fighter, add stats, and a weapon. The weapon can then be further upgraded with additional bonuses to become "special Weapons". The special abilities don't seem to be costed evenly across the models, so that portion is still very much a WORK IN PROGRESS. IF ANYONE WOULD LIKE TO TAKE THIS WORK FURTHER AND IMPROVE UPON IT, PLEASE DO! A "Bare-Bones" Basic Fighter has a 3 Move, 3 Toughness, 0 Wounds for a Cost of 0 Points (That's right, Zero Points) Movement Upgrades. A move from 3 to 4 is worth +15 points. A move from 4 to 5 is worth +5 points. A move from 5 to 6 is worth +10 points. A move from 6 to 7 is worth MAYBE +10 points? A move from 7 to 8 is worth MAYBE +10 points? A move from 8 to 10 is worth MAYBE +5 points? A move from 10 to 12 is worth MAYBE +5 points? Toughness Understanding Toughness Values Toughness values range from 2 to 5 with all of the fighters in the Summer 2019 releases. With 3 being the toughness of an average humanoid fighter, a toughness of 4 represents a more veteran or formidable opponent, while a toughness of 5 represents the mightiest of foes. Note: Only two fighters in the game have a toughness of 2, as it pretty much guarantees that your opponent will always be rolling 3+ against that target for damage. The Stormcast Eternal’s Aetherwing (6 Wounds) and The Splintered Fang’s Serpents (8 Wounds, so it appears that low toughness is correlated with a low wound count as well. A toughness DOWNgrade from 3 to 2 is NEGATIVE 5 to 15 points… gives you 5 to 15 extra points to spend. A toughness upgrade from 3 to 4 is worth +20 points. A toughness upgrade from 4 to 5 is worth +10?? points. MAYBE +15 POINTS? Wounds Wounds are worth 2 Points Each. 7.5 (Actually 8 Wounds) Wounds = 15 Points. 10 Wounds = 20 Points 15 Wounds = 30 Points and so on... they seem to round this to the nearest 5 points, so 18 Wounds = 36 Points might only cost 35 Points. Weapons Some weapons are not represented as weapons, but instead as abilities on the Warband’s Card. For example, the Gloomspire Gitz's Barbed net is a Trapper Runemark [Double], so I am entirely unsure how that is costed into the model. Each fighter can Select 1 or 2 weapons for the points cost shown. Weapon Name Points Cost Range Attack Strength Damage (Base/Crit) Claws Free 1 3 2 1 / 2 Unarmed Free 1 2 3 1 / 2 Club – Standard 5 Points 1 2 3 1 / 3 Dagger – Standard 5 points 1 3 3 1 / 2 Spear – Standard 10 Points 2 2 3 1 / 4 Sword – Standard 10 points 1 3 3 1 / 3 Axe - Standard 30 points 1 3 4 2 / 4 Ranged Weapon 20 points 3-12 2 3 1 / 3 Ranged Weapon 25 Points 8 2 3 1 / 3 Ranged Weapon 25 Points 8 3 4 1 / 4 Sample "Special Weapons" Throwing Spear (50 Points) 8 2 4 2 / 5 (+5 points for range 8 weapons) Sword – Special (45 Points) 1 4 4 2 / 5 Questions about Weapons Is there an Extra Cost or Discount for a second weapon (beyond the actual cost of the weapon)? Unknown. Do Upgraded Attack Dice and Damage values apply to just one weapon or Both? Unknown. Extra Attack Dice 1 Attack Dice is worth +10 points 2 Attack Dice is worth +20 points (10 points for each Attack Dice) Extra Strength +1 Strength is worth +10 points Damage Damage is divided into Base Damage and Crit Damage. Each value can be increased independently. Typical Damage +1 Base damage = +5 points (Up to a maximum of 2, if you want to upgrade the base damage further, see the Extreme Damage Cost Below) +1 Crit damage = +5 points (Up to a maximum of 5, if you want to upgrade the Crit damage further, see the Extreme Damage Cost Below) Extreme Damage +1 Base damage if it goes to 3/# = +10 points (Max Base Damage is probably 3) +1 Crit damage if it goes to #/6 = +10 points (Max Crit Damage is probably 6) Abilities / Runemarks Double Abilities are worth 5 to 45 points each Bulwark = 10 Points CORVUS CABAL’s Scout [Double] Harrying Raven: = 5 Points LEGIONS OF NAGASH’s Elite [Double] Cursed Weapon: = 10 Points LEGIONS OF NAGASH’s Champion [Double] Chosen Champion: = 5 Points BONESPLITTERZ’s Mystic [Double] Beast Spirit Ju-ju: = 15 points STORMCAST ETERNALS Leader [Double] Righteous Aura: = 30 Points IRON GOLEM Leader [Double] Lead with Strength: = 30 Points UNTAMED BEASTS Leader [Double] All-out Attack: = 45 Points Triple Abilities are worth 5 to 40 Points Each UNTAMED BEASTS Brute [Triple] Harpoon Snag = 15 points STORMCAST ETERNALS’ Beast [Triple] Darting Attack: = 5 points Mystic = 25 points Leader = 30 to 35 points IRONJAWZ Leader [Triple] Waaagh!: 25 points BONESPLITTERZ’s Leader [Triple] Waaagh!: = 25 points UNTAMED BEASTS Beast [Triple] Pounce: = 15 points CORVUS CABAL’s Agile [Triple] Swooping Attack: = 15 Points Quad Abilities are worth 55 Points??? Each Questions about Abilities/Runemarks Does adding a Second Ability Rune Mark have an additional cost? Unknown, but maybe +10 Points? EDITED FOR FORMATTING, SEVERAL TIMES. Points calculator for homebrew units par gaznakk Citation Points calculator for homebrew units Hello every one!(TLDR at the end) First of all, I am in no way a Warcry expert, but yesterday I was trying to create profiles for a Greenskinz warband, and got a bit stuck when determining the cost points of each member of the warband. So I decided to try to workout a point cost model for the game, by using the existing data of all the warbands. Luckily for me, u/Moskonet prepared a nice document with all the stats for each warband, so I just had to prepare the data and run some statistical tests. I have used a multiple linear regression to build a model that can calculate an estimated cost point for a unit, given its stats. I used a dataset with 363 samples (all the info in u/Moskonet's file), so technically all the info from every single unit in the game, but without beasts, mercenaries nor allies. The formula is this: -146.87+7.15*M+20.59*T+3.12*W+2.82*RNG1+7.63*ATK1+12.71*STR1+8.92*DMG1+3.11*CRIT1-36.43*ATK2?+8.13*ATK2+0.89*STR2+11.88*DMG2+5.50*CRIT2*20.89*LEADER+4.53*OTHER_TAGS Where: M: Movement T: Toughness W: Wounds RNG1: Range of attack 1 ATK1: Number of attacks for attack 1 STR1: Strength of attack 1 DMG1: Standard damage of attack 1 CRIT1: Critical damage of attack 1 ATK2?: This is 1 if there is a second attack in the fighter's profile. Otherwise it's 0 STR2: Strength of attack 2 DMG2: Standard damage of attack 1 CRIT2: Critical damage of attack 2 LEADER: This is 1 if the unit is a leader, 0 otherwise OTHER_TAGS: Any tag or ability besides leader that the unit might have The result is quite accurate although not exact. I used Excel to get this out, which gives you the residuals (aka it evaluates the model with all the data used to determine it) and most of the fighters are within 13 points of their true value. There are some outliers (the top one being the Squig herder), but that is normal in any statistic method, and I am not giving weight to any abilities, so it is expected that there will be anomalies. I have not included the range of the second attack because I needed more variables to model each type of range, and I ran out of variables, as Excel only allows for 16. I would have liked to add all of the tags as boolean variables as well, but I would require more advanced tools, or learning Python, which is not in my immediate plans. I have prepared a spreadsheet that has the formula in it, and that you can copy over and use to create your homebrew units for the game, or to test the model. You can find 2 examples in the file, they are only within 5 points of error maximum. The model does not round to the nearest multiple of 5, so you will have to do that yourselves. Link to the spreadsheet (remember to create your own copy): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1AOf8XlWbIhRJjF6Mw19hZIzGDU6y_apLiclI9ho_49o/edit?usp=sharing The model is not 100% precise, and does not take how good abilities might be, so some play testing and adjustment might be required to balance your homebrew fighters. Any feedback is welcome! I'll be happy to answer any questions about the model you might have too. For any statistic geeks out there, the model summary is this: R2 is above 0.95, which I had never seen before, and all the variables have a p-value below 0.05 except for STR2 which doesn't seem to be significant, but I decided to leave it anyway, as it makes the model more "symmetric", and the result didn't change much without it. TLDR: I worked out a point cost model based on current fighter data. Link here: https://docs.google.com/ Edited July 11, 2020 by Dreadaxe Maj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

BBLeodium Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 Fais attention que ces méthodes de calcul (par comparaison) prennent en considération les profils de la première vague. Il est clair qu'il y a un changement avec la seconde (cf les profils des Skavens, qui sont complètement sous-évalués par rapport à la première vague). Ce sont des réflexions intéressantes, mais malheureusement elles datent un peu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Dreadaxe Posted March 26, 2020 Author Share Posted March 26, 2020 (edited) il y a 25 minutes, BBLeodium a dit : cf les profils des Skavens, qui sont complètement sous-évalués par rapport à la première vague C'est à dire. Sous évalué ? Skaven pas assez cher si calculé avec ces techniques de calcul ? Skaven pas assez cher en version officielle ? Seul Revlid semble avoir fait une mise à jour de son post il y a 2 mois. Edited March 26, 2020 by Dreadaxe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

BBLeodium Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 (edited) Il y a 5 heures, Dreadaxe a dit : C'est à dire. Sous évalué ? Skaven pas assez cher si calculé avec ces techniques de calcul ? Skaven pas assez cher en version officielle ? A cause de leur mouvement 6, ils sont clairement abaissés au niveau du coût en points. Regarde le profil du clanrat et compare le avec les pauvres gobelins (ou n'importe quel troupier de la 1ère vague, en fait), c'est assez flagrant. J'ai aussi l'impression que les endurance 4 coûtent moins chers par moments. Le clanrat a Mouvement 6, Endurance 4, 8 PV, et soit 2 attaques portée 2 F 3 dg 1/4, soit 3 attaques portée 1 F3 dg 1/3. Il a en plus accès à une capacité spécifique de désengagement (certes aléatoire). Tout ça pour 75 points. Avec la formule décrite dans les posts, il devrait en coûter 10 de plus. Le gobelin en comparaison a juste Mouvement 4, et coûte 70 points...donc apparemment, passer de mouvement 4 à 6 coûte 5 points supplémentaires. Du bullshit en barres, littéralement. Si les skavens avaient "juste" eu 5 en Mouvement, ça passerait mieux. Edited March 26, 2020 by BBLeodium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Dreadaxe Posted July 11, 2020 Author Share Posted July 11, 2020 Maj avec Points calculator for homebrew units par gaznakk Citation Points calculator for homebrew units Hello every one!(TLDR at the end) First of all, I am in no way a Warcry expert, but yesterday I was trying to create profiles for a Greenskinz warband, and got a bit stuck when determining the cost points of each member of the warband. So I decided to try to workout a point cost model for the game, by using the existing data of all the warbands. Luckily for me, u/Moskonet prepared a nice document with all the stats for each warband, so I just had to prepare the data and run some statistical tests. I have used a multiple linear regression to build a model that can calculate an estimated cost point for a unit, given its stats. I used a dataset with 363 samples (all the info in u/Moskonet's file), so technically all the info from every single unit in the game, but without beasts, mercenaries nor allies. The formula is this: -146.87+7.15*M+20.59*T+3.12*W+2.82*RNG1+7.63*ATK1+12.71*STR1+8.92*DMG1+3.11*CRIT1-36.43*ATK2?+8.13*ATK2+0.89*STR2+11.88*DMG2+5.50*CRIT2*20.89*LEADER+4.53*OTHER_TAGS Where: M: Movement T: Toughness W: Wounds RNG1: Range of attack 1 ATK1: Number of attacks for attack 1 STR1: Strength of attack 1 DMG1: Standard damage of attack 1 CRIT1: Critical damage of attack 1 ATK2?: This is 1 if there is a second attack in the fighter's profile. Otherwise it's 0 STR2: Strength of attack 2 DMG2: Standard damage of attack 1 CRIT2: Critical damage of attack 2 LEADER: This is 1 if the unit is a leader, 0 otherwise OTHER_TAGS: Any tag or ability besides leader that the unit might have The result is quite accurate although not exact. I used Excel to get this out, which gives you the residuals (aka it evaluates the model with all the data used to determine it) and most of the fighters are within 13 points of their true value. There are some outliers (the top one being the Squig herder), but that is normal in any statistic method, and I am not giving weight to any abilities, so it is expected that there will be anomalies. I have not included the range of the second attack because I needed more variables to model each type of range, and I ran out of variables, as Excel only allows for 16. I would have liked to add all of the tags as boolean variables as well, but I would require more advanced tools, or learning Python, which is not in my immediate plans. I have prepared a spreadsheet that has the formula in it, and that you can copy over and use to create your homebrew units for the game, or to test the model. You can find 2 examples in the file, they are only within 5 points of error maximum. The model does not round to the nearest multiple of 5, so you will have to do that yourselves. Link to the spreadsheet (remember to create your own copy): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1AOf8XlWbIhRJjF6Mw19hZIzGDU6y_apLiclI9ho_49o/edit?usp=sharing The model is not 100% precise, and does not take how good abilities might be, so some play testing and adjustment might be required to balance your homebrew fighters. Any feedback is welcome! I'll be happy to answer any questions about the model you might have too. For any statistic geeks out there, the model summary is this: R2 is above 0.95, which I had never seen before, and all the variables have a p-value below 0.05 except for STR2 which doesn't seem to be significant, but I decided to leave it anyway, as it makes the model more "symmetric", and the result didn't change much without it. TLDR: I worked out a point cost model based on current fighter data. Link here: https://docs.google.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Dreadaxe Posted September 20, 2020 Author Share Posted September 20, 2020 (edited) Warcry Statshammer pour comparer des profils https://www.reddit.com/r/WarcryStatshammer/ https://github.com/damonhook/warcry-statshammer/releases https://warcry-statshammer.herokuapp.com Edited September 20, 2020 by Dreadaxe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Dreadaxe Posted November 14, 2022 Author Share Posted November 14, 2022 Pour la V2 voilà ce qu'on trouve To calculate point values for any fighter without a ranged attack (I'll get to that later): you can use this formula: Points = -153.268 + (3.528 * Wounds) + (10.124 * Movement) + (5.566 * Toughness) + (4.043 * Max Range of Melee attack) + (15.654 * Attacks) + (9.162 * Strenght) + (12.801 * Damage) + (6.356 * Crit damage) + (14.156 * Hero [yes/no]) + (9.343 * Flying [yes/no]) + (-11.168 * Monster [yes/no]). Pour les troupes avec arme de tir il faudra patienter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

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